Nick Butler

Love, Life, and Writing in the Driftless: A Q&A with author Maggie Ginsberg on her debut novel Still True

Grace Schutte

Some 10,000 years ago, when glaciers hop-scotched across the world like children at recess, a patch of land was left unscathed from their icy trail in the modern-day Midwest. The 25,000 sq/mi area retains its unique landforms of old: lush forests and springs, deep caves and sinkholes, winding hillsides and streams—driftless to this day.

It is here where the Madison Magazine senior editor and author Maggie Ginsberg grew up, on the outskirts of the Driftless.

I had the great pleasure of discussing Ginsberg’s debut novel Still True, set to be released Sept. 27, and the crucial role the Midwest plays in the text—how it shapes and forms the lives of the characters as they explore the joys and complications of love and life in the Midwest.

Join Maggie Ginsberg and Nickolas Butler for a conversation on her debut novel Still True, craft, and writing about place and home at 6pm on Wednesday Sept. 28 at the L.E. Phillips Memorial Public Library. Read on for the complete interview.

 

Grace Schutte: Midwestern culture and setting play a foundational role in Still True—what is your relationship with the Midwest? Has it evolved over the span of your life?

Maggie Ginsberg: I was born and raised in the Midwest in a small town on the edge of the driftless, and the Midwest has shaped me in ways I am still uncovering. There are so many great things about growing up in a smaller community in rural Wisconsin—there are also some challenging things I didn’t realize at the time, things I am still unpacking today. But I have a ton of love for the Midwest.

 

GS: How does your Midwestern background influence how you write and think about literature?

MG: I think the Midwest is sometimes overlooked, dismissed or stereotyped by New York Publishers. They might think of our work as regional but not that we’re writing deeply, thoughtfully, and authentically from the Midwest in universal ways. And of course, there are exceptions, but that’s why I think it is so important what BJ Hollars has done in the Chippewa Valley: Bringing together a community of readers and writers and bringing validity to it. There is something really magical about being seen in literature. 

 

GS: You are an editor for Madison Magazine. What was the transition from non-fiction to fiction like? Do you feel your background in non-fiction brings something unique to the page?

For a while, I was in my own way because the story I was telling myself was that only a certain kind of writer knew how to write fiction and that I wasn’t that writer. Once I got out of my own way and questioned myself about that, then I was open to learning and being taught...
— Maggie Ginsberg

MG: When I first got my agent, she suspected my many years of journalism had given me an access to people’s interiority in a way that has helped me write fiction. I agree with that. For a while, I was in my own way because the story I was telling myself was that only a certain kind of writer knew how to write fiction and that I wasn’t that writer. Once I got out of my own way and questioned myself about that, then I was open to learning and being taught—I am so glad, because it has been a lot of fun.

 

GS: What compelled you to write a novel? As this is your debut book, what has your writing experience looked like so far?

MG: I accidentally took a fiction writing class in 2016. There was a course I took every year and I had already taken all of the nonfiction tracks, and I didn’t want to miss out on the course because I enjoyed it so much, so I thought I’d try fiction. I sat there like a sponge. For some reason, it opened my mind to not just what was possible, but that it was possible for me. I love the freedom I am learning through fiction writing and hope to continue doing that as well.

 

GS: In the opening pages, we are introduced to our protagonist, Lib, a 58-year-old woman living alone—or alone as you can live in a small midwestern town—in her childhood home, of which she has renovated until it is unrecognizable. How does Still True complicate, or enrich, how readers perceive 50-some-year-old independent women?

MG: I saw [Lib] very clearly, and I think a lot of readers can appreciate protagonists who aren't 35. I think you need to have done a little living to tell an interesting story—I know I had to do quite a bit of living to write one. It’s complicated for Lib. It’s not just that she is living on the edge of town because she’s an independent woman—she’s also protecting herself. You could call it hiding, but those are the tools that have been working for her—or so she thinks.

 

GS: There is an undeniable chemistry between the characters—it is honest, passionate, and sensual. In what ways does Still True comment on female sexuality, especially the sexuality of “older” women.

MG: I thought about this book in terms of questions, not answers. It starts with this premise of “Do you lose independence if you’re going to have real intimacy with a partner? Can you have both, or not?” I wanted to know what might challenge that understanding. Because of her generation and her trauma, she has a hard earned relationship with her sexuality.

 

GS: Some would argue family is one of the cornerstones of Midwestern life—you complicate that concept in your book, where secrets are kept and maintained for decades all to come to a head years down the line. How does this serve as a commentary and what does it propose?

MG: I wasn’t setting out to make any kind of statement or anything like that, I just wanted to write people true, write how we really are. For me, the challenge was to do right by [my characters], to really make sure I kept asking them—almost like with my journalism—who they were, where they came from, and to explain themselves to me so I could help them explain themselves to each other.

 

GS: Who inspires you in life and in your writing?

MG: Nickolas Butler is someone I think of. When I read Shotgun Lovesongs, it wasn’t just that I loved that story and his voice, but that I felt seen as a born and raised Midwesterner in ways that I usually didn’t see reflected in a lot of other literature. That was a big deal to me.

 

GS: Do you have plans to write another book?

MG: I started working on another book the minute I went out on submission with this one. It was a way to distract myself from the painful process of having a book out on submission—I’m still working on it, five years later. Publishing is a tough business, writing is glorious.

 

Join Maggie Ginsberg and Nickolas Butler for a conversation on her debut novel Still True, craft, and writing about place and home at 6pm on Wednesday Sept. 28 at the L.E. Phillips Memorial Public Library. 

Have a Little Faith: Confronting the Complexities of Writing with Nickolas Butler

Credit: Jeff Rogers

Credit: Jeff Rogers

Lauren Becker

If you live in the Chippewa Valley, there’s a good chance you know Nickolas Butler. But even if you don’t live in the Valley, there’s an equally good chance you’ve come to know his intimate storytelling. Following up Shotgun Lovesongs and The Hearts of Men, Butler is set to release his latest novel, Little Faith this March. In anticipation of his March 4 reading at Volume One, Butler agreed to share his time with us, giving fellow writers and readers insight into the process that’s brought us his latest work.

Lauren Becker: Religion can be a difficult subject to navigate, especially when trying to convey the complex relationship community and religion have in rural spaces. What led you to tell this story?

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Nick Butler: I’d been thinking about the Kara Neumann case since 2008 when her death came to light.  It was just a horrendous story and something that still resonates with any adult who was alive at that time, but especially those with children. So I knew I wanted to write about something like that, something related to faith and prayer-healing, but that seemed like a very dark rabbit hole indeed. Then, about three years ago, I decided the way into the narrative was to create a grandfather character and to show the really unique and magical relationship between grandparent and grandchild.  The real tension of the book would be drawn between generations in a family – faith, parenting, forgiveness, love, trust, hate… I felt like I had the makings for an incredibly special book.

LB: Can you speak a little on the personal pilgrimage you may have had to go on to write this novel?  

Nick Butler: Every book is a pilgrimage.  Every book you write is a complete leap of faith.  You never know how people are going to interpret things; if they’ll enjoy the narrative or characters.  And it’s a lonely endeavor; it’s thousands of hours of staring at a computer screen conjuring make-believe out of the ether.  And when the book is done, I always feel incredibly bereft, just lost for between six to twelve months before I pick myself back up and go on to the next one. It’s an incredibly strange way to make a living.

LB: Your novel grapples with some of our most intense and intimate journeys we experience in life. Those of death, spirituality, and of course, family. If you could summarize Little Faith in just a few words, how would you convey the ideas that pervade your writing?

Nick Butler: For me, the best novels always confront three key issues: family, place, and something (money, work, love, pride, faith, etc.) worth fighting for; so in everything I write, I’m thinking of those three components.

LB: You note in the preface to your book that this novel was inspired in part by true events. With that in mind, how much of these vivid characters are inspired by the very real folks in your life?  

Nick Butler: More than a few characters in Little Faith are inspired by real people which can be a difficult and emotional consequence of writing a very personal novel.  Look – I don’t know how NOT to be influenced by the people I love, namely my family and friends. I also don’t know how to write about the world I’m struggling to understand, the world I’m trying to celebrate, the world I’m trying to critique, without incorporating my own feelings, perceptions, and history.  So it often seems that my books very much have the fingerprints of real people all over their pages. 

LB: Throughout writing this novel, and perhaps at its conclusion, did you find any ties to current events within your writing?

Nick Butler: I think that much of the political divide in our country can be traced back to organized religion, it’s another way for politicians to stir discord amongst us.  Little Faith isn’t attempting to explain that divide or to place blame. Little Faith is a story with characters, it’s a fiction. But as I was writing the book, I was certainly cognizant of certain national political discourses, certain trends…  I’m also personally very interested in political conversations about quality-of-life issues and end-of-life issues, as well as confronting global climate change, and rural versus urban political dynamics. All of these ideas drip into the art, but it’s important to understand that the art isn’t “about” those ideas.

LB: Your novels are well known for their heart and ability to move us deeply through connection to home and rural spaces. Could you speak about the importance of setting in your writing?

Nick Butler: I like a book with atmosphere; I like being transported somewhere.  Right now, I’m reading Ellie Catton’s The Luminaries which is famously set in New Zealand during a 19th Century gold rush.  It’s incredibly evocative and sets the characters against the landscape.  I like that sort of book. I think of: East of Eden, Sometimes A Great Notion, or The Shipping News.  And writing about rural Wisconsin just comes easily to me because, guess what – it’s right out my front door.

LB: What are you hoping to communicate to readers that didn’t grow up in rural areas?  

Nick Butler: I’m not sure I’m trying to communicate anything. My philosophy has always been to write a narrative that compels a reader to turn pages and a narrative populated by characters that a reader can at least somewhat identify with, even if they don’t necessarily like that character.  I try to write round characters, and I try to push myself – to move past easy impulses and to complicate the writing in hopefully new and authentic ways. Basically, I don’t worry about my readers. There was a time in my life when I had NO readers and back then, I was writing for myself, for my own enjoyment.  I try to remain in that space.

LB: Is there anything else you’d like to share with us?  

Nick Butler: Read a book.  Any book. But hopefully one of mine.  Thanks.

The Chippewa Valley Writers Guild is thrilled to host Nickolas Butler as our fiction writer-in-residence for this summer’s all-new Priory Writing Retreat. When asked to comment on our upcoming retreat, Butler had this to share:

“Every year I sincerely look forward to the summer CVWG Writing Retreat.  It’s a weekend that I always enjoy for so many reasons. Greeting writer-friends that I’ve worked with in the past and certainly meeting new writers as well.  I like that sense of discovery, of potentially working with a great new voice in American literature. And too, the food, camaraderie, bonfires, and beer aren’t bad either.”

Inspired? Wonderful. Click here to sign up to secure your spot at this summer’s writing retreat!