by Gwenyth Wheat
Dorothy Chan’s fifth collection, Return of the Chinese Femme revels in the decadence of food, sex, pop culture, affection and so much more. The book is one to read from beginning to end and then all over again. From appetizer to dessert, Chan’s poetic prowess redefines the literary landscape. It’s confident. It’s the appetizer, main course, and dessert. Each line leaves you craving the next. Chan is a powerhouse poet who continues to give this world more of what it needs—authentic, bold, hungry love.
credit: Grace Sydney Pham
To interview Dorothy, my poetry mentor and friend, was a dream come true. It was a great honor and delight to help celebrate her forthcoming book Return of the Chinese Femme and add our conversation to the creative community. With utmost joy and appreciation, thank you, Dorothy, for your writing.
Gwenyth Wheat: I wanted to start with a discussion on the intersections of the speaker’s identity, Asian heritage, queerness, family and more that come to life on the page. Your collection explores these intersections in an intimate, abundant, and magnificent fashion. Could you share about these intersections as well as how poetry functions as a unique space to explore a speaker’s fierce and tender trajectory of selfhood?
Dorothy Chan: Gwen, it’s such a pleasure to talk with you! I am so proud of your accomplishments so far in your MFA and professional life. Thank you for this brilliant opening question.
“I love the challenge of poetry. It’s such an adrenaline rush. The potentially small space (on the page) a poem occupies belies its true complexities. ”
I love the challenge of poetry. It’s such an adrenaline rush. The potentially small space (on the page) a poem occupies belies its true complexities. Poetry, and in particular, the sonnet, and even more specifically, The Triple Sonnet, contains conversational elements where my speakers use humor, seduction, storytelling, and direct narration to reveal their innermost vulnerabilities. I also believe that poetry is simply another medium of receiving information — but of course, it’s a much more lyric and musical medium — one that allows my speakers to bask in the glory of who they are. I 100% believe in my speaker, the queer Asian femme, being unapologetic at all times. Thank you for describing my speaker as both fierce and tender. I believe poetry helps me strike this unique balance, and from here, we get the volta — the turn in thought and feeling. The volta, serving as internal reveal, also aids in achieving this intimacy.
GW: Your galley copies of the collection debuted at AWP 2024 and I was lucky enough to read one! I was really struck by the blurb by Norman Dubie who wrote “There is a sometimes rowdy elegance in these poems that is like a brilliant mind whispering again to itself. The voice instructs us to love life even when it has most betrayed us. The reader is consoled in all of it. What a great book.” Would you like to speak to the role of poetry to teach love in ways that are “rowdy” and “brilliant” and dismantle social constructs and expectations?
DC: A lesson that I love to teach students, which is also a lesson that Norman Dubie, my late great Poetry Father taught me, is that poetry can be humorous. Poetry can be SO laugh out loud funny and irreverent and witty. Within this wit and humor lies great Truth (with a purposeful capital “T” that my Poetry Mother, Lyrae Van Clief-Stefanon taught me).
Thank you for bringing up this blurb, Gwen. This was the last blurb Norman wrote, and I fondly remember how years ago, I promised him he would write a blurb for each one of my books. It was a lifelong contract.
I think we often have this wrong idea that humorous entertainment should somehow be taken “less seriously.” It’s a highly misinformed mindset because often humor shows Truth. I also care most about community—that’s what my organization Honey Literary is all about—humor is also a way to nurture our communities. There’s also something many people find scary as hell about a fierce queer femme of color who also happens to be funny as hell.
GW: I also think we need to take a minute for the book’s stunning front and back cover. I love the gold lettering, the continuance of your stamp of adding a twist to Star Wars titles, the Las Vegas tea cup, the red! Do you want to talk about the cover photo and art? What was the process like in selecting the art for your book?
DC: When I saw Grace Sydney Pham’s (@gracesydneypham) photo, I cried. Her work is so special. I’d like to spotlight her artist’s statement (from the September LitHub cover reveal):
“The still life photograph “Your Inheritance” was composed of various thrifted odds and ends: a Las Vegas cup and saucer, bingo balls from a bingo set, and a polyester satin fabric,” added Pham. “I enjoy frequenting thrift stores and estate sales, finding value in cast off, unwanted things, and assembling these various cast-offs in odd, nuanced arrangements. With this still life, I wanted to poke fun at the tension between saving money and prized possessions for one’s descendants versus gambling it away in the later stages of life. There’s an additional, personal meaning to this photograph and my photography practice for me; both of my parents are hoarders, and I’ve inherited this hoarding behavior, which I’ve tried to justify or redeem by taking still life photographs.”
GW: The book’s table of contents is organized and designed as an evening menu. I love how the themes of food stretch beyond the poems and into the framing of the collection through a menu-style table of contents. How did you decide on organizing your poems into its five tasting menu sections?
DC: I’m drawn to organizing poetry collections in odd-numbered sections. I find a regal quality in this move. Traditionally, I go for a “triptych,” or three-part structure. Triple Sonnet. The Powerpuff Girls. Sugar, spice, and everything umami. The rule of three applies to everything in life. I was an art history minor in college, so this poetic organizational move is a nod to my studies and passions.
credit: Joshua David Watson
This time around, though, because this book is extra special, I increased my structure to a five-parter. It was like playing a personality test game with all my favorite forms. Triple Sonnets, for instance, are definitely “Classic Amuse-Bouches with a Twist.” In contemporary sonnet creation, we’re playing, bending, and messing with the rules, but one tenet always holds true: the volta was invented because of the sonnet form. And with endless voltas or emotional turns, as the reader, our appetites are constantly whet.
GW: I love the opportunity to think about different poetic processes and how collections come into fruition. I believe the act of creating presents writers with personal or craft-centered voltas. Surprise can become a natural progression with a project as more themes start to develop. Did you have any moments while working on iterations of these poems or organizing them that surprised you within your own work?
DC: Absolutely. In organizing this collection, I surprised myself by including poems of all forms in each section. For instance, Section II is named, “The Triple Sonnets: Classic Amuse-Bouches with a Twist.” Some of my favorite Triples, including “Triple Sonnet for Black Hair” and “Triple Sonnet for Celebrities with Three Names” are included here. But I also decided to include two iterations of “Designer,” prose poems because they have an “amuse-bouche” tease quality.
GW: The collection takes the reader on a journey through multiple forms. We get your exquisite signature form, the triple sonnet as well as odes, “Designer” poems, and recipe poems. How do you practice experimentation and exploration with poetic form and craft? Similarly, do you feel like this practice further demonstrates a commitment to “joy and resilience” as mentioned in your book description?
DC: I adore this question! To each their own, but I’m not one of those poets who has a “strict” plan coming into a poem. Of course, in creating, each poem has a starting point—a hook that seduces. Or think about how runway works. Or to (quote from what I remember) Michael Kors on Project Runway: “She turned the corner and I gasped.”
Every good runway show has a volta—or multiple voltas. Glamazons strut their stuff on runways, sporting (hopefully not just) florals for spring and (more more more) plaids and leathers for fall. But a strong runway show is also eclectic. We can’t simply watch the same design or iterations of the same design walk down. Poetry collections function in a similar fashion—of course, a book needs its unification through form and content. But we also need to leave room for enough surprise.
“Joy is wearing a leather jacket you love but also surprising yourself with a pink rhinestone choker. Or the other way around. We don’t need to stick to one definition of anything—that’s a metaphor of joy and resilience as well. ”
I used to follow a strict regimen where I had to write a series of Triple Sonnets or I had to write a bunch of odes. As much as I love the discipline of form, only writing in certain forms can become stifling (no matter how much you love them). So that’s what I started riffing on the word “Designer” and its many implications and meanings. Joy is wearing a leather jacket you love but also surprising yourself with a pink rhinestone choker. Or the other way around. We don’t need to stick to one definition of anything—that’s a metaphor of joy and resilience as well.
GW: One of my favorite moments in the collection comes from the poem titled, “She Asks Me What I Want in a Life Partner” that reads “I’ll be your little art monster, the cyclops awakening // during the midnight romp, and you know it’s time / to take over the world with our wits and wiles— // always femme, my dear, and wild wild wild wild.” What a wonder these lines create with the confidence and endearment of the speaker, the accumulation of ‘wild’ through the absence of commas and the alliteration building to it. It is a moment of many moments, which is why I love it so much! How do you see lines such as this one calling to other turns in the collection that call to a seizing of the world through the unabashed?
“One of the ways we can seize the world through the unabashed is by being always direct and honest. This way, we’re closer to our own Truths.”
DC: I’m so happy you love this poem, Gwen!!! This means a lot. One of the ways we can seize the world through the unabashed is by being always direct and honest. This way, we’re closer to our own Truths. A pessimist might read this poem and think, Wow, it’s sad because the speaker knows this relationship won’t work out. But a realist might read this poem and reflect on how the speaker’s honesty: “I want someone to take over the world with, which / sounds like the theme to Pinky and the Brain” gets the speaker closer to their Truth of wildness, romp, and success.
GW: I was also really drawn to the use of pop culture references throughout the collection. We get poems with Veronica Lodge, Dennis Rodman, a “Triple Sonnet and Three Cheers for the Asian Bachelorette,” Batman villains and more. Do you want to talk about the joys and discoveries of using pop culture in poetry?
DC: I will never understand why some people are so vehemently against pop culture references in poetry. A poem is a lyric medium of receiving information. I’ve also heard the argument “it [the reference] takes me out of the poem,” but I argue that looking things up, along with reflecting on a bigger world are integral experiences within reading and analysis.
Popular culture in poetry brings me so much joy, especially from the lens of being a child of immigrants from Hong Kong. I’ll never forget how someone once criticized a Betty and Veronica poem I wrote years ago, questioning its relevance. But then a few years later, Riverdale premiered and it’s this bizarre and fabulous pop culture touchstone. Poetry is about complexities and nuances of emotion. That’s why as a kid, Batman the Animated Series was my favorite show. No superhero lore beats Batman’s gallery of rogues. I loved how the animated series was film noir-esque as well as heartbreaking. The amount of backstory given to say, Mr. Freeze or Poison Ivy made me reflect about intensity as a kid. And so many of the Batman villains are either queer or queer-coded. It’s a win-win.
GW: This is now your fifth collection out in the world which is so incredible! What was a special moment (whether in publishing, drafting, the possibilities are endless) that you experienced while creating this book?
DC: I think my favorite moments are here to come! I am excited for my May book tour: Minneapolis, San Francisco, Phoenix, New York, and Dallas.
GW: Thank you again for your time with this interview. Is there anything that I missed about your forthcoming book that you would like to add? Do you have any notes about your experience publishing with Deep Vellum?
DC: Thank YOU, Gwen!! I’ll simply add that I’m grateful for the wonderful people at Deep Vellum, my readership, and my mentors.
Click here for more information about Dorothy’s writing.
Click here for more information about Dorothy’s book launch, alongside poet Douglas Kearney, at Milkweed in Minneapolis on May 1 at 6 PM.
Dorothy Chan (she/they) is the author of five poetry collections, including Return of the Chinese Femme (Deep Vellum, April 2024) and Revenge of the Asian Woman (Diode Editions, 2019), a finalist for the Theodore Roethke Memorial Poetry Prize and the Lambda Literary Award in Bisexual Poetry. They are an Associate Professor of English at the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire and Co-Founder and Editor in Chief of Honey Literary Inc., a 501(c)(3) BIPOC literary arts organization. Chan was a 2022 recipient of the University of Wisconsin System’s Dr. P.B. Poorman Award for Outstanding Achievement on Behalf of LGBTQ+ People. This summer they will be a Visitor at Sewanee Writers’ Conference. Visit their website at dorothypoetry.com.
Gwenyth Wheat is a MFA/MA candidate at McNeese State University. She is the Assistant Poetry Editor for the McNeese Review and a writing tutor for MSU. She received her Bachelor of Arts in English from the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire. A Pushcart Prize nominee, her work has appeared or is forthcoming in Great Lakes Review, The Poet’s Touchstone, ZAUM, NOTA, LIGHT Magazine and elsewhere. Originally from the northwoods of Wisconsin, she currently resides in Lake Charles, Louisiana.